Category: Business

Website Costs

[This is more philosophy than an answer, but I feel people should know why web development pricing is so variable.]

“Is it £35 or £35,000,000?”

I think the best way to answer that question, in true web development style, is “Yes.” My usual answer, when people come to me is, “It depends.” :)

It’s not that we’re trying to be difficult, it’s just that there’s no set price for website design, and there shouldn’t be. Every single site is different, and that’s the way it should be – if all sites were the same, the web would be a very boring place, and eCommerce wouldn’t exist. Of course, there are development companies out there that offer “packages”, but I don’t subscribe to that way of doing things, because when you do business that way, someone *has* to lose out, and it’s usually the client – you get a “site in a box”, just like another hundred the company produced that week or month. In my view, that’s not very innovative, and it’s innovation that stands out on the web. Let’s be honest – if you’re not going to do it right, you might as well not do it at all.

The problem is that you have lots of people jumping on the bandwagon at the moment – people whose knowledge of computers and the Internet could be written in marker on the back of a stamp. (Note to self – what’s a stamp? :) One person I met described them as “Copier Salesmen” – they’re the same guys who saw the boom in copiers back when they first came out, and followed the money. The same is happening with the web – you’ve got people following the money, and these guys shouldn’t be allowed *near* a computer, because all they want is your money. And they’ll do that by selling you a “site in a box”.

Another problem is that web design is quite like traditional design – it’s a service industry that relies heavily on talent, not training. So, in essence, *proper” web development companies don’t have to subscribe to pricing guidelines – we can pretty much charge people what *we think we’re worth*. That may seem harsh, but it’s simply supply and demand – if you want good, you gotta pay for it. If you want average, you pay an average price. If you want cheap, you’ll get tack.

The only exception to that rule are the few companies out there who do damn good work and charge a fair price for it. And they’re few and far between, and the prices are still very variable. I mean, my own company’s pricing has gone up a thousand-fold in the past three years (I kid you not), and I still feel that I’m cutting myself short half the time. I’ve quoted people £20,000 for a website, and found out afterwards that they had been quoted £1m for it. And I wouldn’t be kicking myself for that – I’d be laughing at the gall of the people quoting a million. I couldn’t quote that much money for a site, the guilt would bring me down! :)

Ok, now to answer your question slighly more directly:

How much would I be expected to pay for a site that will contain:

  1. Introduction page.
  2. Contact page.
  3. Host my catalogue of products.approx 120 products.
  4. Including all set up costs, search engine registration, domain name reg, etc.
  5. Also annual costs involved.

If you came to me with that spec, the first thing I would do is tell you to go away and come back with a better spec. The problem I have is mainly with point 3 – lots of questions immediately pop into my head when I see that:

  • What kind of products are you selling?
  • Where/how will you be shipping them?
  • Have you researched the tax and shipping costs involved in international orders?
  • Do you have a merchant account?
  • Will you be breaching your contract by taking orders on the web? (Chances are you will.)
  • Do you want to process the transactions in real-time, or will it suffice to receive the orders by email?
  • If the former, do you want to store user and credit card data?
  • If the latter, do you have an encryption application installed on your computer?
  • Do you want to track orders?
  • Do you want to integrate the online system with your current system?

I could go on and on. And that’s the reason no-one will quote you directly for website development right off the bat. If they do, or they’re not asking you those questions, you shouldn’t go anywhere *near* them. Why? Because there’s huge variations involved in the questions above. For example, if you want to track orders, or integrate the system, that means more programming on our part. If you want real-time transaction processing, you need to set up with a provider. If you want to store credit card data, you’re jumping into serious money. It means setting up proper security procedures, and shortly that will mean a dedicated machine on your own premises, connected via a (very expensive) leased line. (Why? Because Visa are currently introducing new measures for online trading, and that’s the only way around it.)

My advice? To be honest it’s hard to know what to advise people. The best I can do is to tell you to set aside a good chunk of time to set out *exactly* what you want out of the site, bearing in mind some of the question above, and the way your business currently operates. Don’t be afraid to put every piddling little detail in there – the things that may seem unimportant may be hugely important on the site. Then have a good look around the web and directories for the developers that appeal to you. See if they’ve done sites like what you’re looking for. Look at their style, and their own sites, and their attitude, and use that to judge if they’re up to the job.

Now, don’t phone them and relay all that information to them, email them the spec you spent all that time on. Web developers spend most of their time on the net, and they work best sitting in front of a computer, not on the phone. Plus, when they have the spec in front of them, they’ll be able to go through it in their own time, at their own pace. When they reply, they’ll be able to comment on everything, and explain why this costs that, and any difficulties that might be involved. You also get a price that’s much closer to reality.

If they’re interested – and they should be interested, because creating a website for someone is a lot like going into a partnership – you should try and arrange a meeting, to sit down a sort out any niggles between ye. This is good because the closer the developer can get to an exacting spec of the site beforehand, the less chance there will be of problems halfway through the development, because, for example, you wanted to add something new, when the drafts have been finalised (grrr). After that meeting, then, and only then, will you get an *exact* quote.

And you should understand another thing too – this drawn out process can be bad for us too. I get calls every day from people looking for sites, and I have to go through this process with each and every one of them, because it’s the *only* way you can do it *properly*. And a lot of them call off at the end, because the price is too high, or the project is a lot more complicated than it seemed. That comes down to the fact that an awful lot of people think that setting up a site is a walk in the park. But unless you’re talking about a straight brochure site, it’s not, it’s *hard*. And when they call off, that’s my time and money wasted. It’s a tricky business!

And finally, a direct answer. How much would I quote you for a website like that? Between five and twenty-five thousand pounds. Sorry, best I can do… :)

Eircom

A follow-up to “Ye gods, even the telcos in Ireland don’t answer their email!” And more bitching about “eircom”. There’s a moral – skip to the end if you don’t want to read the body.

I don’t know if I posted here about it, but I’ve recently been enquiring about a freephone number for ieWebs, that I would be using in print stuff and the like. So I sent Esat and eircom and email last Monday week, asking them to send me information on their services, costs, etc. It was a copy and paste job, they both got the same content.

I got a phone call the next day from a very nice chap in Esat. I was disappointed they didn’t contact me by email, but he soon made up for it – he went through all the options with me, explained most of the things I needed to know, and answered most of the questions I asked. And we had a grand ould chat too, about telecommunications in Ireland – the Internet, hosting, bandwidth, wireless comms, landlines, the whole shooting match. He genuinely seemed interested in what he did, understood what I was saying and actually *out-talked* me in some cases, which as you all know is pretty hard to do. The only bad side was that he didn’t answer one or two questions I asked clearly enough, particularly on pricing. However, the figures I got for the basic running of the number were – no setup fee, and the monthly fee was waived for a year. Which means it’s just the cost of the incoming call. Which is the part he was unclear about…

Someone reminded me the next day about Ocean, so I battered an email off to them through their website, in much the same vein as the other two. And from Ocean, I received a response the *same* day, late in the evening. This guy was even better than the Esat guy, he quite definitely loved his job and chatted away with me while I ranted on about the cost of hosting and bandwidth in Ireland, the lack of eCommerce facilities et al. He commented openly, but carefully, on the Esat merger and eircom’s inability to cope with privatisation and flotation. He answered all my questions frankly, and didn’t hesitate for a second when I asked if Ocean were cheaper or more expensive, without rambling numbers at me. He also took notes on my “feedback” on the hosting, bandwidth and eCommerce problems in Ireland, and said that he would pass it on to Ocean’s R&D department, and I think I actually believe him. Final result – no setup fee, no monthly charge (not waived, none), so again it’s just down to call cost. And he *insisted* that Ocean were cheaper than Esat, who were cheaper than eircom.

Yesterday morning, almost two weeks later, I received a phone call from someone in eircom. There was dead air on the line when I made the comment that I sent the email two weeks ago – she didn’t seem to understand the problem, so I dropped it. She didn’t understand when I asked what block of numbers* eircom have available for “telemarketing services”, simply saying that I would have to compile a list and they would check them for me. I decided to skip anything else of a technical nature and cut right to the chase, how much does it cost? £50 setup fee, £10 a month fee, with an extra £5 for *number rental*! When I told her that neither Esat nor Ocean had any of those charges, she was either dumbstruck or disinterested. So I hung up.

Here’s the moral. More advice, I guess. Don’t buy eircom products. Don’t rent eircom products, don’t use eircom products. You’ve got an eircom line – for the moment at least, you can’t do anything about that. But get rid of the eircom bill – lose the service and get another one. If you need a “proper” Internet connection, get EsatClear – I’ve saved a minimum of 20% on my phone bill since I signed up. If you don’t, get Ocean and a freebie provider. Actually, now I come to think about it, it isn’t advice, it’s a personal witch-hunt – I don’t want to see Irish people being screwed by eircom, which they are. The “equipment rental” is a major demonstration of that. Look at your phone bill – is there an “equipment rental” fee on it? If there is, that’s the phone you’re paying for. For a huge number of people, they’ve being paying rental on that phone for decades – how much does that add up to? Most people aren’t even aware of that. So if  you do, pack up the phone and take it into your nearest eircom store, and tell them to take it off your bill. And GET A RECEIPT! They won’t want to give you one, but *insist* – it’s the law and they HAVE to give you one if you ask.

* The new providers are assigned blocks of numbers they can use, which is illogical – they should be drawn from a central pool, like the domain name system. Esat get 923000-924999 and Ocean get 925000-926999. It’s unclear what eircom have, but I’m under the impression that they actually assigned these blocks (which are useless for “name-numbering” – i.e. 1800-ieWebs, because the 9 key contains wxyz!) Since deregulation, it seems that there still isn’t a decent regulatory body in charge of assigning numbers and the like. Even the Ocean chappy said it was “still somewhat up in the air”.

Pirate Bay Bought Out?

This is all over the news today. Sounds to a bad April 1 prank, have the lads their dates mixed up?

The Pirate Bay has been (effectively) acquired by a gaming company called Global Gaming Factory X, who is plunking down nearly $8 million for the privilege. Their grand, surprising plan for the Pirate Bay is to pay content providers. Seriously.

via Gizmodo.

Rumour: Koenigsegg to buy Saab

Fingers crossed someone in Saab kept the plans for the 900 Turbo. Surely be to god if anyone can get Saab back where they belong, it’s Koenigsegg?

Autoblog: We don’t have much to go on yet, but Swedish television is reportedly claiming that Koenigsegg, makers of ultra high-performance exotic supercars, and a group of Norwegian investors have signed a letter of intent with Saab to take over the brand from General Motors. Final negotiations will reportedly take place in the coming months.

Long Overdue

I’ve posted before about open workshops. Pit Start is a more mainstream idea but long overdue, and probably perfectly timed:

If you’re a London gearhead and want to work on your car but have no place to do it, you’ll want to check out Pit Start, a new self-service garage. It is exactly what it sounds like – a communal pay-by-the-hour workspace. Would-be tinkerers can pre-book a space or drop in, and upon arrival, a Pit Start employee will assign you one of the twenty repair bays depending on the kind of work you’ll be doing.

Bays can be rented for a minimum of hour, and it’s £10 for bays without lifts (a little over $15 USD) or £20 (roughly $30 USD) for one of the six bays that come with a four-ton hoist. Pit Start provides an array of common tools for free, sells oil and basic fluids, has a directory of nearby mechanics, and can arrange to have parts delivered for you within the hour. The only things you can’t do are tasks that involve welding or paint spraying. This month, bay rental is 50% off, and the garage is open 24/7 in case you get the urge to install a turbo at 3 a.m. They even provide shop manuals.

screenshot1242062501

(Via Autoblog.)

Irish Foods Under Threat

Great post by Kieran Murphy about Tesco’s decision to deprioritise Irish products on the shelves of shops on the border (and in the new Extra store in Douglas in Cork):

It’s a story that should have caught the attention of anyone who loves food in Ireland, since the ripples of such a decision would be immense. Tesco own around 23% of the Irish food market, and the impact upon Irish food producers (and Irish employment) in losing such a huge chunk of market share could be catastrophic. According to Bord Bia, the average spend of Irish people on imported foods has risen 50% since 2000. With Tesco dumping Irish brands, that percentage would skyrocket as a large segment of Irish consumers would lose easy access to Irish brands. There could be many Irish food companies that would not survive losing such a large percentage of their sales.

I predicted an economic recovery (2 quarters of positive growth) of mid to late 2010 on Foot.ie back in November, however this kind of thing makes me worry that if anything recovery will happen too soon, and bolster the new addition of instant gratification to our national psyche. Irish people need to start thinking beyond the short-term bottom line, to a possible future where we’re being screwed to the wall with no choices because of monopolies and cartels.

An economic recovery without recovery in employment, which is of course what’s going to happen, will not help the situation. Something needs to be done at Government level, and FF and their clown partners are not the people to do it. FG aren’t either, which is why we need Labour in Government with them (despite recent idiocy on their part).

I’m still not a blogger…

Although to be fair to Mark from the Sunday Times, he did tell me he’d be doing a piece and quoting me, unlike the thieving hacks in the Star who steal content from Foot.ie on a near-weekly basis. This is in relation to Amazon’s decision to start shipping electronics and the like to Ireland again. I’ll continue down this road.

Adam Beecher, another blogger, is not impressed with the internet retailer’s change of heart. “I’ll continue to buy elsewhere, apart from exceptional circumstances,” he said. “I have no intention of jumping back into bed with them just because they flip a bad decision three years later, and implement the change badly while they’re at it.”

I would like to say though, Mark, that it would be nicer if you asked, rather than informed. I understand you don’t have to for a simple soundbyte, but it’s nice to be nice. But thanks anyway, I appreciate it.

The Imaginary NBS Satellite

According to a plausible account on Boards.ie, the 8% satellite aspect of the frankly useless National “Broadband” Scheme is, basically, imaginary. The satellite in question hasn’t even been built yet, and the launch vehicle that’s supposed to lob it into orbit hasn’t flown. Ever. I have to wonder who’s a bigger langer, John Doherty or Eamon Ryan.

(Obviously I’m being facetious. Eamon Ryan wins by a long shot, with an incompetence and lies double-whammy. John Doherty’s just a dickhead.)

RTÉ: Bring Back Glic Rick!

Thanks to Allan, via Damien, we now have a way to vent our spleens about the bizarre hobbling of Rick O’Shea’s 2FM show. I haven’t heard the show since I heard about, since 2FM is now out of my rotation. Here’s what I said:

I won’t bore you with a diatribe, I just want to register a complaint about the RTE decision to hamstring and ultimately destroy Rick O’Shea’s show on 2FM. I’m not a huge radio listener but when I do have the radio on, Rick is one of the only DJ’s I’m interested in listening to. I’m much less likely to switch to 2FM on my dial now. Please revoke the decision and put it back the way it was.

Thanks,
Adam Beecher

I received an autoreply immediately, score 1 for RTÉ. Score 2 for the non-autoreply 4 minutes later, probably a form response but still deserving of brownie points. Score 3 for the fact that it’s 8:30 at night. 1 more point and I’ll put the channel back into rotation. Guess what’ll do it RTÉ? :)

Dear Adam,
Thank you for your e-mail.
Your comments in relation to the changed format of the Rick O’Shea show will be included in our Audience Log of calls and e-mails, which is circulated for information to senior management in RTÉ Radio and is reviewed at the weekly meeting of the Editorial Boards.
Your e-mail is also being brought to the attention of the Head of RTÉ 2fm.
Thank you again for taking the time to make your views known to us, we very much welcome all feedback on our programmes and services.

With best regards
XXXXXXXXXXXX
RTÉ Information Officer